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[Music]

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hello and welcome to episode number 57

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of the point of convergence podcast as

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always

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i am your host exo academian

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near the middle part of the 20th century

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american society became obsessed with a

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newfangled fascination

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this pastime that took the public's

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imagination by storm

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prompted serious and excited discussion

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around interplanetary visitors

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the dawning of this new era in public

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life was fueled by a series of sightings

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of what quickly became known as flying

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saucers

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more generally the term adopted was that

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of ufos unidentified flying objects

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this term described what was commonly

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assumed to be

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sophisticated technological spacecraft

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being piloted by alien others

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martians or venusians or something in

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that line of thinking

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our neighbors from the surrounding

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planets of our solar system

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now while the public's interest was

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peaking the mainstream scientific

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establishment was much more cautious

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all of this hoopla seemed too good to be

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true

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too much like a radio drama depicting an

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hd wells story or something along those

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lines

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for that reason mainstream scientists

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largely steered clear of this topic

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and of course this bias was helped in

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large measure by what we understand now

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to be a dedicated disinformation

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campaign meant to quell public and

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academic interest being perpetuated by

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the federal government

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however that said there were scientists

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who had not forgotten that their role

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was to investigate anything mysterious

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that seemed to be manifesting without

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assuming a priori that such things

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simply couldn't be

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these rare pioneers of inquiry are the

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kinds of people determined to let data

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not pre-existing bias lead the way

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one such pioneer was and is a scientist

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named jacques vallee

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a living legend who has arguably done

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more for the field of ufology than any

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other person in the history of the world

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what's made valet so well-regarded over

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time is that looking back he was always

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willing to go again where the data led

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him

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letting it rather than the common sense

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thinking of the day

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lead to the postulating of new

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hypotheses

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now speaking of that one such

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data-driven shift that happened for

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valet

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came when he recognized that number one

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these supposed encounters with alien

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beings flying sophisticated spacecraft

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seem to regularly include elements of

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high strangeness more akin to what are

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commonly referred to as paranormal

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encounters and number two that when

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examined in close detail these elements

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overlapped considerably with apparently

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religious or fairytale encounters from

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distant human history

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this inspired valet to do a deep dive

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comparing modern day ufo encounters with

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events from distant human lore

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leading eventually to his controversial

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consequential and groundbreaking book

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passport to magonia from folklore to

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flying saucers

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and it is the surprising and provocative

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revelations uncovered in that seminal

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book that are the topic of this the 57th

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episode of the point of convergence

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[Music]

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i would like to begin this week's

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podcast by reminding all of us that the

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hypotheses put forward to make sense of

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data arising in what we call the ufo

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phenomenon

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is always embedded within a context a

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social context which even determines

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what options are on the table and

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because these hypotheses are often

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generated from within a cultural context

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it's always important to be aware of

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confirmation bias the possibility that

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we're merely finding examples that

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support a particular hypothesis because

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that's exactly what we're looking for

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and perhaps without being fully

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conscious of it we are ignoring other

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aspects of the data that might lead us

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to different conclusions

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now jacques valet the author of the book

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we're going to discuss today is a

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shining example of being aware of this

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kind of confirmation bias being on the

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lookout for it

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and to his credit when valai came across

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data that seemed to suggest that perhaps

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the extraterrestrial hypothesis as it's

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often proposed is not the best fit for

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all of the data

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especially once you stretch back beyond

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a certain period of time in human

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history

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again the impetus for this book was not

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some far-out notion that valet chose to

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pursue rather he simply saw something in

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the data that suggested a connection

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bridging two swaths of data that are

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often considered as completely distinct

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and that investigation of the data

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pursuing it wherever it took him

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resulted in this book passport to

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magonia from folklore to flying saucers

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and speaking of that book this is the

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description of the book provided by the

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publisher

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quote it is readily acknowledged that

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our time has surpassed all epochs in

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history for the accumulation of

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technical knowledge physical power over

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our environment and economic might

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it is less often pointed out however

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that our age has generated and continues

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to generate mythical material almost

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unparalleled in quantity and quality in

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the rich records of human imagination

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more precisely people have very

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frequently reported the observation of

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wonderful aerial objects variously

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designated as flying saucers

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unidentified flying objects and so on

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among these narratives descriptions of

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landings made by these craft are

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commonplace

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and that quite a few accounts purport to

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inform us of the physical

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characteristics the psychological

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behavior and the motivation of their

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occupants

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but investigators have neglected to

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recognize one important perspective of

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the phenomenon

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the fact that beliefs identical to those

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held today have recurred throughout

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recorded history and under forms best

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adapted to the believer's country race

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and social regime

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if we take a wide sample of this

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historical material we find that it is

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organized around one central theme

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visitation by an aerial people from one

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or more remote legendary countries

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the names and attributes vary but the

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main idea clearly does not

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magonia heaven hell elfland

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all such places have in common one

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characteristic

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we are unable to reach them alive except

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on very special occasions

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emissaries from these supernatural

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abodes come to earth sometimes under

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human form and sometimes as monsters

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they perform wonders they serve man or

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fight him they influence civilizations

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through mystical revelation they seduce

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earth women and the few heroes who dare

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seek their friendship find the girls

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from elfland endowed with desires and

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betray a carnal rather than purely

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aerial nature

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these matters are the subject of

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passport to magonia jacques villa's

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seminal masterwork that changed our

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understanding of the ufo phenomenon

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an instant classic when first published

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in 1969

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the book remains a must-have resource

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for anybody interested in the topic of

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ufos and alien contact as well as those

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fascinated by fairy folklore and other

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paranormal encounters unquote

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so that gives you a sense of what this

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book is about the approach that it's

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taking the historical material it's

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trying to take into account

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but before we get more into the book

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let's discuss jacques villa's history

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what got him to this place to begin with

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remember people like jacques vallee

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along with his associate and colleague j

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ellen heineck were once proponents of

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the eth the extraterrestrial hypothesis

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but you have to also remember that these

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two men probably more than anyone

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were involved with on the ground

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investigations when exciting would

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happen they would fly to the area look

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for soil samples look for clear

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manifestations in the consensus reality

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suggesting that something actually

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happened but they would also interview

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witnesses determine their credibility

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determine their potential history for

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mental illness etc

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and what they found time and time again

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was a high degree of high strangeness

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elements of what we might call

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paranormality

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co-arose with sightings of ufos time and

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time and time again and it was this

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clear indication in the data and

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regularly attested to in the data that

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ultimately led both men valet and hynek

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away from the extraterrestrial

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hypothesis in addition villa is also

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famous for saying that he thinks the

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idea that these are just beings coming

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from other planets is not an interesting

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enough idea he prefers something more

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exotic and it certainly seems to be the

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case that that's exactly what he found

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in the data again in the data not only

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did he find elements of high strangeness

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but he found a striking parallel between

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the kinds of high strangeness depicted

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in modern day ufo encounters and ancient

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fairy lore and it's that overlap that

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led to the investigation that ultimately

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culminated in this book passport to

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magonia

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all right let's jump into some quotes

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from the book

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first of all i want to remind you of

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kenneth arnold this was the man who in

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1947

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spotted saucers flying in formation and

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it was that sighting that brought about

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the notion of flying saucers in american

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culture or so we thought anyway

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because in this book there's a section

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called sorcerers from the clouds that

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talks about this term being used

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previous to this time period

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quoting from the book quote

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it is common belief that the term flying

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saucer was made in america was it not

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coined by an american businessman in

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1947 was not the first official

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investigation of the mystery by military

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authorities started in the united states

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a few weeks later

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well yes

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but a farmer from texas described a dark

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flying object as a large saucer as early

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as january 1878

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and ancient japanese records inform us

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that on october 27 1180

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an unusual luminous object described as

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an earthenware vessel flew from a

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mountain in the ki province beyond the

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northeast mountain of fukuhara at

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midnight after a while the object

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changed its course and was lost to sight

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at the southern horizon leaving a

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luminous trail

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00:11:24,870 --> 00:11:22,320
unquote

286
00:11:30,310 --> 00:11:24,880
so here we have accounts from before

287
00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:30,320
1947 first the 1878 account in texas and

288
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:33,600
then an account from 1180

289
00:11:38,150 --> 00:11:36,240
much more distant history describing an

290
00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:38,160
earthenware vessel

291
00:11:41,829 --> 00:11:39,440
which when you think about it that's

292
00:11:43,670 --> 00:11:41,839
basically describing the same thing so

293
00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:43,680
for those who want to believe that

294
00:11:49,509 --> 00:11:46,800
flying saucers the notion of ufos is a

295
00:11:52,629 --> 00:11:49,519
relatively new phenomenon born in the

296
00:11:54,829 --> 00:11:52,639
20th century these kinds of accounts

297
00:11:56,949 --> 00:11:54,839
really bring that conclusion into

298
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:56,959
question and that's what you find in

299
00:12:02,150 --> 00:11:59,360
this book time and time again

300
00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:02,160
with a great degree of detail every time

301
00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:03,760
you want to conclude that a certain

302
00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:06,000
phenomena arose in a certain period in

303
00:12:10,310 --> 00:12:08,560
human history you are confronted when

304
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:10,320
you actually pay attention to the

305
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:11,760
historical data

306
00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:13,760
that very similar accounts go back

307
00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:16,959
further and further and further in human

308
00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:18,800
history and that leads you to the

309
00:12:22,870 --> 00:12:20,560
inevitable question

310
00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:22,880
what does it mean if these events have

311
00:12:26,870 --> 00:12:25,200
been happening and these seemingly

312
00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:26,880
otherworldly beings have been

313
00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:29,360
interacting with us for as long as we've

314
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:31,279
been around basically for as long as

315
00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:33,279
we've been recording events in our

316
00:12:39,030 --> 00:12:36,160
history there seems to be very similar

317
00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:39,040
accounts taking place what are we to

318
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:41,200
conclude from that understanding that

319
00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:43,600
revelation that's what this book makes

320
00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:45,360
us wrestle with

321
00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:46,880
and i really do believe that's the right

322
00:12:52,310 --> 00:12:50,560
word to use wrestle because valet is not

323
00:12:53,750 --> 00:12:52,320
in the business of providing hard

324
00:12:56,069 --> 00:12:53,760
conclusions

325
00:12:58,230 --> 00:12:56,079
he's jokingly said that he's the only

326
00:13:00,550 --> 00:12:58,240
ufologist in the world who doesn't know

327
00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:00,560
what's going on of course that's ironic

328
00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:02,240
because he has more knowledge of the

329
00:13:06,790 --> 00:13:04,560
data than probably anyone else and has

330
00:13:09,030 --> 00:13:06,800
been studying it for as long or longer

331
00:13:11,190 --> 00:13:09,040
than everyone else

332
00:13:14,389 --> 00:13:11,200
but moving beyond that this notion of

333
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:14,399
magonia in the title passport to magonia

334
00:13:18,389 --> 00:13:16,240
what is that about

335
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:18,399
this is what we can say of the magonian

336
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:21,360
myth quote according to the treaties

337
00:13:26,470 --> 00:13:24,320
arguing against weather magic magonia is

338
00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:26,480
the name of the cloud realm when

339
00:13:29,829 --> 00:13:28,800
felonious aerial sailors were said to

340
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:29,839
have come

341
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:31,680
the inhabitants of this realm were said

342
00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:34,480
to travel the clouds in ships and worked

343
00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:37,120
with frankish tempestarai

344
00:13:42,389 --> 00:13:40,079
tempest razors or weather magi to steal

345
00:13:44,230 --> 00:13:42,399
grain from the fields during magically

346
00:13:46,069 --> 00:13:44,240
raised storms

347
00:13:48,949 --> 00:13:46,079
in his writings against these popular

348
00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:48,959
superstitions aggo bard denounced the

349
00:13:53,509 --> 00:13:51,279
belief in witchcraft and the inscription

350
00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:53,519
of tempests to magic

351
00:13:56,870 --> 00:13:54,880
unquote

352
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:56,880
so as you can see to the bishops of the

353
00:14:01,670 --> 00:13:59,440
day to the church who basically ran

354
00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:01,680
society at that time mongonia was

355
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:04,160
considered a mythic place a not real

356
00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:06,480
place a superstitious notion that

357
00:14:10,949 --> 00:14:08,800
shouldn't be paid any attention to but

358
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:10,959
what valet is doing is saying that much

359
00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:14,240
of the mythology is very similar to that

360
00:14:19,189 --> 00:14:16,800
which also includes ufos and alien

361
00:14:21,509 --> 00:14:19,199
beings because the kinds of things that

362
00:14:23,430 --> 00:14:21,519
the alien beings do the kinds of

363
00:14:26,069 --> 00:14:23,440
interactions that even modern people

364
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:26,079
have with these supposed alien others is

365
00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:28,639
very similar to the kinds of accounts

366
00:14:34,710 --> 00:14:30,880
reported in these interactions with

367
00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:34,720
these aerial sailors of the distant past

368
00:14:38,150 --> 00:14:36,320
now at the beginning of the podcast

369
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:38,160
you'll recall that i said that one of

370
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:40,399
the elements that made the lay as well

371
00:14:44,150 --> 00:14:42,480
as people like hanukk questioned the

372
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:44,160
notion of the extraterrestrial

373
00:14:49,110 --> 00:14:46,800
hypothesis as being sufficient to

374
00:14:50,949 --> 00:14:49,120
explain what was going on was the degree

375
00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:50,959
of high strangeness

376
00:14:56,069 --> 00:14:54,240
and not to mention seeming absurdity

377
00:14:57,269 --> 00:14:56,079
now what kind of high strangeness are we

378
00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:57,279
talking about

379
00:15:01,269 --> 00:14:59,360
well this is a case in point i'm now

380
00:15:03,269 --> 00:15:01,279
quoting from the book regarding the

381
00:15:04,150 --> 00:15:03,279
eagle river case

382
00:15:07,030 --> 00:15:04,160
quote

383
00:15:11,189 --> 00:15:07,040
the time was approximately 11 a.m on

384
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:11,199
april 18 1961 when joe simonton was

385
00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:13,920
attracted outside by a peculiar noise

386
00:15:19,189 --> 00:15:17,360
similar to knobbly tires on wet pavement

387
00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:19,199
stepping into his yard he faced a

388
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:21,920
silvery saucer-shaped object brighter

389
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:23,279
than chrome

390
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:24,959
which appeared to be hovering close to

391
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:27,680
the ground without actually touching it

392
00:15:32,949 --> 00:15:30,000
the object was about 12 feet high and 30

393
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:32,959
feet in diameter a hatch opened about

394
00:15:37,749 --> 00:15:35,279
five feet from the ground and simmington

395
00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:37,759
saw three men inside the machine

396
00:15:42,150 --> 00:15:39,440
one of them was dressed in a black

397
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:42,160
two-piece suit the occupants were about

398
00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:43,920
five feet in height

399
00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:46,000
smooth shaven they appeared to resemble

400
00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:47,440
italians

401
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:49,360
they had dark hair and skin and wore

402
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:51,440
outfits with turtleneck tops and knit

403
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:52,639
helmets

404
00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:54,720
one of the men held up a jug apparently

405
00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:57,759
made of the same material as the saucer

406
00:16:01,910 --> 00:15:59,920
his motions to joe simonton seemed to

407
00:16:03,990 --> 00:16:01,920
indicate that he needed water

408
00:16:06,629 --> 00:16:04,000
simmington took the jug went inside the

409
00:16:07,990 --> 00:16:06,639
house and filled it as he returned he

410
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:08,000
saw that one of the men inside the

411
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:10,880
saucer was frying food on a flameless

412
00:16:14,949 --> 00:16:12,480
grill of some sort

413
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:14,959
the interior of the ship was black the

414
00:16:18,389 --> 00:16:16,800
color of wrought iron

415
00:16:20,790 --> 00:16:18,399
siminton who could see several

416
00:16:23,189 --> 00:16:20,800
instrument panels heard a slow whining

417
00:16:25,110 --> 00:16:23,199
sound similar to the hum of a generator

418
00:16:26,629 --> 00:16:25,120
when he made a motion indicating he was

419
00:16:29,189 --> 00:16:26,639
interested in the food that was being

420
00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:29,199
prepared one of the men who was dressed

421
00:16:33,670 --> 00:16:31,360
in black but with a narrow red trim

422
00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:33,680
along the trousers handed him three

423
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:36,320
cookies about three inches in diameter

424
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:39,040
and perforated with small holes

425
00:16:43,269 --> 00:16:40,880
the whole affair had lasted about five

426
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:43,279
minutes finally the man closest to the

427
00:16:47,350 --> 00:16:45,120
witness attached a kind of belt to a

428
00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:47,360
hook in his clothing and closed the

429
00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:49,680
hatch in such a way that simonton could

430
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:52,000
scarcely detect its outline

431
00:16:56,069 --> 00:16:54,000
then the object rose about 20 feet from

432
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:56,079
the ground before taking off

433
00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:58,320
straight south causing a blast of air

434
00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:01,040
that bowed some nearby pine trees

435
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:02,560
unquote

436
00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:04,319
now reflecting on that account i'm sure

437
00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:06,559
you'll acknowledge that the notion of

438
00:17:11,669 --> 00:17:09,280
alien beings arriving in a flying saucer

439
00:17:13,029 --> 00:17:11,679
but then cooking pancakes certainly

440
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:13,039
flies in the face of what we would

441
00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:15,280
expect from such visitors

442
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:17,199
this is what valet has to say about the

443
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:19,919
way human beings tend to draw too quick

444
00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:21,760
a conclusion regarding these kinds of

445
00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:22,959
events

446
00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:25,280
quote the eagle river case has never

447
00:17:30,470 --> 00:17:27,520
been solved the air force believes that

448
00:17:32,549 --> 00:17:30,480
joe simmons who lived alone had a sudden

449
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:32,559
dream while he was awake and inserted

450
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:35,200
his dream into the continuum of events

451
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:38,160
around him of which he was conscious

452
00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:40,240
i understand several psychologists in

453
00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:42,720
dayton ohio are quite satisfied with

454
00:17:49,590 --> 00:17:45,840
this explanation and so are most serious

455
00:17:51,909 --> 00:17:49,600
amateur ufologists alas ufology like

456
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:51,919
psychology has become such a narrow

457
00:17:57,270 --> 00:17:54,480
field of specialization that the experts

458
00:17:59,029 --> 00:17:57,280
have no time left for general culture

459
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:59,039
they are so busy rationalizing the

460
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:00,960
dreams of other people that they

461
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:03,360
themselves do not dream anymore nor do

462
00:18:08,310 --> 00:18:06,400
they read fairy tales if they did they

463
00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:08,320
would perhaps take a much closer look at

464
00:18:12,870 --> 00:18:10,880
joe simmons and his pancakes

465
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:12,880
they would know about the gentry and the

466
00:18:16,150 --> 00:18:14,559
food from fairyland

467
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:16,160
unquote

468
00:18:21,270 --> 00:18:18,320
now as it turns out this case became

469
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:21,280
even more bizarre and interesting

470
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:23,919
once the authorities actually had these

471
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:26,640
pancakes examined

472
00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:28,559
this is what the book says about that

473
00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:29,440
quote

474
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:31,200
it was an unusual day for the food and

475
00:18:35,909 --> 00:18:33,200
drug laboratory of the u.s department of

476
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:35,919
health education and welfare when the

477
00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:38,400
air force requested an analysis of a

478
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:40,720
piece of wheat cake that had been cooked

479
00:18:44,470 --> 00:18:42,880
a board a flying saucer

480
00:18:46,950 --> 00:18:44,480
the human being who had obtained the

481
00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:46,960
cake was joe simonton a 60 year old

482
00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:48,960
chicken farmer who lived alone in a

483
00:18:52,549 --> 00:18:50,799
small house in the vicinity of eagle

484
00:18:55,270 --> 00:18:52,559
river wisconsin

485
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:55,280
he was given three cakes ate one of them

486
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:57,600
and thought it tasted like cardboard the

487
00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:00,240
air force put it more scientifically the

488
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:02,720
cake was composed of hydrogenated fat

489
00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:05,520
starch and buckwheat hulls soya bean

490
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:07,440
holes wheat bran

491
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:09,360
bacteria and radiation readings were

492
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:11,840
normal for this material chemical

493
00:19:15,590 --> 00:19:13,760
infrared and other destructive type

494
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:15,600
tests were run on the material

495
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:17,520
the food and drug laboratory of the us

496
00:19:21,350 --> 00:19:19,200
department of health education and

497
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:21,360
welfare concluded that the material was

498
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:24,000
an ordinary piece of pancake of

499
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:25,679
terrestrial origin

500
00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:27,360
unquote

501
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:29,600
now from valet's perspective it is very

502
00:19:32,310 --> 00:19:31,280
interesting that there was this exchange

503
00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:32,320
of food

504
00:19:36,390 --> 00:19:34,320
a request for water and an exchange

505
00:19:38,470 --> 00:19:36,400
something provided in return

506
00:19:40,310 --> 00:19:38,480
of course this is quite common in

507
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:40,320
descriptions of interactions with the

508
00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:43,200
fairy folk also called the gentry

509
00:19:47,270 --> 00:19:45,679
this is what valet has to say

510
00:19:49,750 --> 00:19:47,280
quote it is interesting that the

511
00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:49,760
analysis performed for the air force did

512
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:51,760
not mention the presence of salt in the

513
00:19:56,150 --> 00:19:53,840
pancakes given to simmington

514
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:56,160
indeed wence was told by an irishman who

515
00:20:00,950 --> 00:19:58,240
was quite familiar with the gentry that

516
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:00,960
quote they never taste anything salt but

517
00:20:04,549 --> 00:20:03,360
eat fresh meat and drink pure water

518
00:20:06,549 --> 00:20:04,559
unquote

519
00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:06,559
of course pure water is what the saucer

520
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:09,520
men took from simonton unquote

521
00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:11,120
now it's in this section of the book

522
00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:13,520
that valet also discusses the biases

523
00:20:17,430 --> 00:20:16,000
that exist within ufology

524
00:20:19,669 --> 00:20:17,440
and of course because it's not a

525
00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:19,679
peer-reviewed kind of practice these

526
00:20:25,029 --> 00:20:22,960
kinds of biases often go unchecked

527
00:20:27,510 --> 00:20:25,039
what valet found was that

528
00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:27,520
not only did ufologists not really try

529
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:29,760
to wrestle with these kinds of cases but

530
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:31,840
they would actively suppress them or

531
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:35,039
ignore them focusing rather on nuts and

532
00:20:39,510 --> 00:20:36,640
bolts cases that looked like clear

533
00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:39,520
examples of technological devices up in

534
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:41,760
the sky because they wanted to bolster

535
00:20:46,630 --> 00:20:44,320
their case with a scientific mainstream

536
00:20:49,350 --> 00:20:46,640
they wanted to be taken seriously

537
00:20:51,909 --> 00:20:49,360
but in the midst of that goal they would

538
00:20:54,149 --> 00:20:51,919
actually suppress ignore and dismiss

539
00:20:56,470 --> 00:20:54,159
data that didn't fit with the prevailing

540
00:20:59,350 --> 00:20:56,480
paradigm and from valet's point of view

541
00:21:01,350 --> 00:20:59,360
this is to skew the data entirely and to

542
00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:01,360
perhaps miss the entire point of the

543
00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:03,280
data even when it's staring you in the

544
00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:04,400
face

545
00:21:09,430 --> 00:21:06,640
so clearly we have examples in modern

546
00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:09,440
day where preferred opinions preferred

547
00:21:14,789 --> 00:21:12,320
hypotheses bring about circumstances

548
00:21:17,430 --> 00:21:14,799
where real data hard data that is part

549
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:17,440
of the historical record is suppressed

550
00:21:21,830 --> 00:21:19,520
ignored and when it can't be ignored

551
00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:21,840
it's often reinterpreted

552
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:23,840
interestingly we have cases of that in

553
00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:25,520
history as well

554
00:21:28,870 --> 00:21:27,120
and case in point i want to read from

555
00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:28,880
another section of the book

556
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:32,400
quote one day among other instances it

557
00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:34,960
chanced at leons that three men and a

558
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:36,960
woman were seen descending from these

559
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:39,600
aerial ships the entire city gathered

560
00:21:44,149 --> 00:21:41,440
about them crying out they were

561
00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:44,159
magicians and were sent by grimaldis

562
00:21:49,510 --> 00:21:47,200
duke of beneventum charlemagne's enemy

563
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:49,520
to destroy the french harvest

564
00:21:53,110 --> 00:21:51,360
in vain the four innocents sought to

565
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:53,120
vindicate themselves by saying that they

566
00:21:57,830 --> 00:21:55,200
were their own country folk and have

567
00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:57,840
been carried away a short time since by

568
00:22:01,830 --> 00:21:59,600
miraculous men who had shown them

569
00:22:03,430 --> 00:22:01,840
unheard of marbles and had desired to

570
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:03,440
give them an account of what they had

571
00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:04,480
seen

572
00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:06,640
the frenzied populace paid no heed to

573
00:22:10,870 --> 00:22:08,720
their defense and were on the point of

574
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:10,880
casting them into the fire when the

575
00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:13,919
worthy ago bart bishop of leons who

576
00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:15,840
having been a monk in that city had

577
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:18,000
acquired considerable authority there

578
00:22:22,230 --> 00:22:20,159
came running at the noise and having

579
00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:22,240
heard the accusations of the people and

580
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:24,480
the defense of the accused gravely

581
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:26,320
pronounced that both one and the other

582
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:28,480
were false that it was not true that

583
00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:30,640
these men had fallen from the sky and

584
00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:32,720
that what they said they had seen there

585
00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:35,360
was impossible that people believed what

586
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:37,520
their good father egobard said rather

587
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:39,280
than their own eyes

588
00:22:44,950 --> 00:22:42,000
were pacified sit at liberty the four

589
00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:44,960
ambassadors of the selfs and received

590
00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:47,360
with wonder the book which aggabald

591
00:22:50,549 --> 00:22:49,200
wrote to confirm the judgment which had

592
00:22:52,149 --> 00:22:50,559
been pronounced

593
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:52,159
thus the testimony of these four

594
00:22:56,149 --> 00:22:54,720
witnesses was rendered vain

595
00:22:58,630 --> 00:22:56,159
unquote

596
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:58,640
so this is the same man echo bard that

597
00:23:02,070 --> 00:23:00,159
was talking before

598
00:23:04,230 --> 00:23:02,080
about magonia

599
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:04,240
now what's interesting here is not only

600
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:06,720
do the four witnesses who descend from a

601
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:08,400
ship in the sky

602
00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:10,799
end up being freed even though the town

603
00:23:13,750 --> 00:23:12,720
folk want to basically burn them at the

604
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:13,760
stake

605
00:23:19,029 --> 00:23:16,400
but this ago barred figure has such

606
00:23:20,870 --> 00:23:19,039
authority in that area at that time that

607
00:23:22,230 --> 00:23:20,880
when he tells them they're both wrong

608
00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:22,240
that this couldn't possibly have

609
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:23,679
happened at all

610
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:25,679
they believe him this is what's so

611
00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:27,840
bizarre about prevailing paradigms and

612
00:23:31,909 --> 00:23:29,760
how they shape belief

613
00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:31,919
and valeta's point is we should be just

614
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:34,640
as wary of that today as we are in

615
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:36,880
examples like this from the depth of

616
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:38,640
human history

617
00:23:43,350 --> 00:23:40,799
so so far we've included a few cases

618
00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:43,360
from fairy lore and how they overlap

619
00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:44,240
with

620
00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:46,960
modern day ufo phenomenon cases how much

621
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:49,120
overlap of elements there are both in

622
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:50,880
terms of the high strangeness and the

623
00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:53,520
sheer absurdity that seems prevalent in

624
00:23:57,990 --> 00:23:55,520
these kinds of cases

625
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:58,000
beyond the fairy lore there's also cases

626
00:24:01,990 --> 00:23:59,919
in religious history that bear

627
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:02,000
remarkable resemblance with

628
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:04,400
data coming from the ufo phenomenon

629
00:24:08,549 --> 00:24:06,480
and in fact these cases are so similar

630
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:08,559
from jacques villa's point of view that

631
00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:10,400
it really comes down to the interpretive

632
00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:11,520
grid

633
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:13,440
of course we know about fatima what

634
00:24:19,269 --> 00:24:16,480
happened in portugal in 1917 we

635
00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:19,279
discussed that on a podcast in the past

636
00:24:25,190 --> 00:24:22,000
now in that case you had clear evidence

637
00:24:27,350 --> 00:24:25,200
of standard ufos being cited in the sky

638
00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:27,360
beforehand and then eventually the

639
00:24:32,549 --> 00:24:29,360
appearance of a humanoid

640
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:32,559
female figure which the locals being of

641
00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:35,200
a catholic worldview for the most part

642
00:24:38,870 --> 00:24:37,120
along with the catholic church

643
00:24:41,110 --> 00:24:38,880
officially decided that this was

644
00:24:43,269 --> 00:24:41,120
actually a manifestation of the virgin

645
00:24:45,909 --> 00:24:43,279
mary now again valet and other

646
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:45,919
ufologists really question this because

647
00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:48,080
again not only were there sightings of

648
00:24:52,390 --> 00:24:50,720
ufos leading up to this account but all

649
00:24:55,029 --> 00:24:52,400
of the high strangeness all of the

650
00:24:56,630 --> 00:24:55,039
paranormality all of the absurdity was

651
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:56,640
also on display

652
00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:58,400
and so really when you think about it

653
00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:00,559
the main reason the catholic church had

654
00:25:05,029 --> 00:25:02,880
reason to declare this a religious event

655
00:25:05,830 --> 00:25:05,039
was that the people interpreted it that

656
00:25:07,669 --> 00:25:05,840
way

657
00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:07,679
which of course is the very definition

658
00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:10,480
of confirmation bias now interestingly

659
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:13,360
fatima is not the only case like that

660
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:15,679
and in this book valet also draws

661
00:25:19,669 --> 00:25:18,080
attention to other religious events or

662
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:19,679
events that were interpreted as

663
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:21,840
religious quoting from the book again

664
00:25:27,029 --> 00:25:22,880
quote

665
00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:27,039
on noon in september 1702 the sun took

666
00:25:31,990 --> 00:25:28,960
on a bloody color several days in

667
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:32,000
succession and cotton-like threads fell

668
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:34,240
down apparently falling from the sun

669
00:25:41,830 --> 00:25:38,080
itself phenomena reminiscent of the 1917

670
00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:41,840
observations in fatima portugal unquote

671
00:25:46,950 --> 00:25:44,240
and in a separate case now quote

672
00:25:48,110 --> 00:25:46,960
chaos spread all over japan on january

673
00:25:51,909 --> 00:25:48,120
2nd

674
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:51,919
1749 when three round objects like the

675
00:25:55,510 --> 00:25:52,799
moon

676
00:25:57,990 --> 00:25:55,520
appeared and were seen for four days

677
00:25:59,669 --> 00:25:58,000
such a state of social unrest developed

678
00:26:02,390 --> 00:25:59,679
and seemed so clearly linked with the

679
00:26:04,390 --> 00:26:02,400
mysterious celestial objects that the

680
00:26:06,789 --> 00:26:04,400
government decided to act

681
00:26:09,190 --> 00:26:06,799
riot participants were executed but

682
00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:09,200
confusion became total when people

683
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:12,000
observed three moons aligned in the sky

684
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:16,320
and several days later two suns unquote

685
00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:18,480
so that's two different cases when we

686
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:21,120
think about portugal fatima that was

687
00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:23,760
interpreted as a catholic event in japan

688
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:24,960
because they have a different

689
00:26:28,789 --> 00:26:27,200
sociological history it was interpreted

690
00:26:31,110 --> 00:26:28,799
differently but it still seemed to be a

691
00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:31,120
sign from the heavens declaring that

692
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:32,640
what they were doing on the ground in

693
00:26:37,110 --> 00:26:35,039
their society was wrong again when you

694
00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:37,120
step back and take more of the 30 000

695
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:39,600
foot view what you realize is that we

696
00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:42,240
have phenomena manifesting that are

697
00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:44,480
highly strange that sometimes involve

698
00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:46,640
what looks like meteorological effects

699
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:49,360
in the sky atmospheric effects as well

700
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:51,840
as classical ufos and the strange

701
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:54,240
manifestations of beings and of course

702
00:26:58,870 --> 00:26:56,640
often absurdity is in the mix as well

703
00:27:01,590 --> 00:26:58,880
but how these events are interpreted

704
00:27:02,390 --> 00:27:01,600
depends on the cultural context of the

705
00:27:04,549 --> 00:27:02,400
time

706
00:27:06,789 --> 00:27:04,559
and of the place

707
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:06,799
now as you're perhaps beginning to see

708
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:09,360
in this book ballet gives case after

709
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:11,840
case after case stretching across the

710
00:27:16,950 --> 00:27:14,320
entire span of human history or at least

711
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:16,960
recorded human history showing how often

712
00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:19,440
these kinds of cases have happened

713
00:27:23,669 --> 00:27:21,520
and even within american history prior

714
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:23,679
to the 20th century we still have

715
00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:26,159
shocking events that have been recorded

716
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:28,960
and now i want to recount one involving

717
00:27:34,389 --> 00:27:31,600
alexander hamilton believe it or not

718
00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:34,399
this is what the book has to say quote

719
00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:37,120
in an affidavit quoted in several recent

720
00:27:41,909 --> 00:27:39,760
ufo books and journals hamilton states

721
00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:41,919
that he was awakened by a noise among

722
00:27:46,950 --> 00:27:44,080
the cattle and went out with two other

723
00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:46,960
men he then saw an airship descend

724
00:27:50,950 --> 00:27:48,480
gently toward the ground

725
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:50,960
and hover within 50 yards of it it

726
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:53,200
consisted of a great cigar shaped

727
00:27:57,909 --> 00:27:56,240
portion possibly 300 feet long with a

728
00:27:59,909 --> 00:27:57,919
carriage underneath

729
00:28:02,389 --> 00:27:59,919
the carriage was made of glass or some

730
00:28:05,029 --> 00:28:02,399
other transparent substance alternating

731
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:05,039
with a narrow strip of some material it

732
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:07,520
was brilliantly lighted within

733
00:28:11,909 --> 00:28:09,760
and everything was plainly visible it

734
00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:11,919
was occupied by six of the strangest

735
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:13,760
beings i ever saw

736
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:15,760
they were jabbering together but we

737
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:18,399
could not understand a word they said

738
00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:20,480
upon seeing the witnesses the pilots of

739
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:22,799
the strange ship turned on some unknown

740
00:28:26,549 --> 00:28:25,440
power and the ship rose about 300 feet

741
00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:26,559
above them

742
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:28,559
it seemed to pause and hover directly

743
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:30,720
over two-year-old hefer which was

744
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:33,279
bawling and jumping apparently fast in

745
00:28:36,549 --> 00:28:34,559
the fence

746
00:28:38,549 --> 00:28:36,559
going to her we found a cable about a

747
00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:38,559
half inch in thickness made of some red

748
00:28:42,389 --> 00:28:41,279
material fastened in a slip knot around

749
00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:42,399
her neck

750
00:28:48,070 --> 00:28:45,120
one end passing up to the vessel and the

751
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:48,080
hefer tangled in the wire fence we tried

752
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:50,320
to get it off but could not so we cut

753
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:52,559
the wire loose and stood in amazement to

754
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:56,159
see the ship hefer and all rise slowly

755
00:29:00,789 --> 00:28:58,720
disappearing in the northwest hamilton

756
00:29:01,830 --> 00:29:00,799
was so frightened he could not sleep

757
00:29:04,870 --> 00:29:01,840
that night

758
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:04,880
rising early tuesday i started out by

759
00:29:09,990 --> 00:29:07,120
horse hoping to find some trace of my

760
00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:10,000
cow he said this i failed to do but

761
00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:11,840
coming back in the evening found the

762
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:14,000
link thomas about three or four miles

763
00:29:19,909 --> 00:29:17,039
west of leroy had found the hide legs

764
00:29:21,590 --> 00:29:19,919
and head in his field that day

765
00:29:23,590 --> 00:29:21,600
he thinking someone had butchered a

766
00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:23,600
stolen beast had brought the hide to

767
00:29:28,630 --> 00:29:26,080
town for identification but was greatly

768
00:29:30,789 --> 00:29:28,640
mystified in not being able to find any

769
00:29:33,269 --> 00:29:30,799
tracks in the soft ground

770
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:33,279
after identifying the hive by my brand i

771
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:35,840
went home but every time i would drop to

772
00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:37,919
sleep i would see the cursed thing with

773
00:29:42,310 --> 00:29:40,480
its big lights and hideous people i

774
00:29:45,269 --> 00:29:42,320
don't know whether they were devils or

775
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:45,279
angels or what but we all saw them and

776
00:29:49,669 --> 00:29:47,600
my whole family saw the ship and i don't

777
00:29:51,350 --> 00:29:49,679
want any more to do with them

778
00:29:53,430 --> 00:29:51,360
unquote

779
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:53,440
now not only is this a case of the ufo

780
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:55,919
phenomenon going back well before the

781
00:30:00,310 --> 00:29:58,080
20th century but of course very

782
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:00,320
interestingly and somewhat disturbingly

783
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:03,120
this is also very similar to cases of

784
00:30:08,470 --> 00:30:05,120
cattle mutilation that are so well

785
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:08,480
attested in the 20th and 21st century

786
00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:11,120
and again speaking of the 20th and 21st

787
00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:14,000
century valley is quick to point out his

788
00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:17,520
frustration with ufologists who want to

789
00:30:23,029 --> 00:30:20,880
ignore cases reject cases consider not

790
00:30:24,950 --> 00:30:23,039
relevant cases that happen before a

791
00:30:27,269 --> 00:30:24,960
certain time period merely for the

792
00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:27,279
arbitrary reason that they believe that

793
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:29,200
wouldn't be indicative of an alien

794
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:31,760
invasion which they think should be the

795
00:30:35,430 --> 00:30:33,440
prevailing narrative

796
00:30:37,750 --> 00:30:35,440
quoting from the book again vale says

797
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:37,760
quote today there are still students of

798
00:30:42,230 --> 00:30:39,760
the phenomenon who reject the notion

799
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:42,240
that the ufo phenomenon was reported

800
00:30:48,310 --> 00:30:45,840
before 1947 unquote and elsewhere he

801
00:30:51,029 --> 00:30:48,320
says quote one prominent writer would

802
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:51,039
allow old cases dating back some 200

803
00:30:56,149 --> 00:30:54,080
years but not before because a long-term

804
00:30:58,950 --> 00:30:56,159
alien presence would negate the newest

805
00:31:01,669 --> 00:30:58,960
belief in an imminent extraterrestrial

806
00:31:05,190 --> 00:31:01,679
invasion manifested through abductions

807
00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:05,200
aboard flying craft unquote

808
00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:07,039
so again with all of this in mind

809
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:08,720
considering all of these historical

810
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:10,880
cases stretching over the course of

811
00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:13,360
recorded human history what are we to

812
00:31:17,669 --> 00:31:16,000
make of this entire phenomenon

813
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:17,679
we really consider these separate

814
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:20,320
phenomena distinct and connected to

815
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:23,039
different kinds of origins or are these

816
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:26,080
examples of the same phenomena over time

817
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:28,080
and if that's the case what does that do

818
00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:30,399
for our convenient explanation that

819
00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:32,559
these are sophisticated technological

820
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:33,600
vehicles

821
00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:37,279
being flown by aliens from exoplanets

822
00:31:40,630 --> 00:31:38,720
and such

823
00:31:43,509 --> 00:31:40,640
again when you consider the full breadth

824
00:31:46,149 --> 00:31:43,519
of the historical data you could argue

825
00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:46,159
as does valet that perhaps the et

826
00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:48,480
hypothesis the notion that these are

827
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:51,600
aliens piloting spacecraft from some

828
00:31:56,710 --> 00:31:54,640
exoplanet here to perhaps invade is

829
00:31:59,269 --> 00:31:56,720
merely the latest sociological

830
00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:59,279
interpretation of the same event that

831
00:32:03,509 --> 00:32:01,200
led one group of human beings to

832
00:32:05,269 --> 00:32:03,519
determine this was a religious event

833
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:05,279
another to interpret this as a fairy

834
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:07,039
event etc

835
00:32:11,909 --> 00:32:09,360
that perhaps once we separate the

836
00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:11,919
phenomena the actual observations of

837
00:32:16,710 --> 00:32:14,320
what happened from the interpretations

838
00:32:19,269 --> 00:32:16,720
of what that meant what we may be seeing

839
00:32:22,230 --> 00:32:19,279
is some kind of intelligence manifesting

840
00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:22,240
phenomena in our consensus reality over

841
00:32:27,669 --> 00:32:25,440
the entire course of human history at

842
00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:27,679
least that's a possibility we need to

843
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:28,960
consider

844
00:32:31,830 --> 00:32:30,720
this is what valet has to say in

845
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:31,840
reflection

846
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:32,720
quote

847
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:35,120
let us come to the point now it would be

848
00:32:39,509 --> 00:32:36,960
nice to hold on to the common belief

849
00:32:41,269 --> 00:32:39,519
that the ufos are craft from a superior

850
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:41,279
space civilization

851
00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:43,360
because this is a hypothesis science

852
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:46,640
fiction has made widely acceptable and

853
00:32:51,350 --> 00:32:49,440
because we are not altogether unprepared

854
00:32:54,630 --> 00:32:51,360
scientifically and even perhaps

855
00:32:56,950 --> 00:32:54,640
militarily to deal with such visitors

856
00:32:59,750 --> 00:32:56,960
unfortunately however the theory that

857
00:33:02,630 --> 00:32:59,760
flying saucers are material objects from

858
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:02,640
outer space manned by a race originating

859
00:33:06,389 --> 00:33:05,120
on some other planet is not a complete

860
00:33:08,149 --> 00:33:06,399
answer

861
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:08,159
however strong the current belief in

862
00:33:12,789 --> 00:33:10,720
saucers from space it cannot be stronger

863
00:33:15,509 --> 00:33:12,799
than the celtic faith in the elves and

864
00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:15,519
the fairies or the medieval belief in

865
00:33:19,509 --> 00:33:17,600
lutens or the fear throughout the

866
00:33:22,830 --> 00:33:19,519
christian lands in the first centuries

867
00:33:25,269 --> 00:33:22,840
of our era of demons and satires and

868
00:33:27,029 --> 00:33:25,279
fawns certainly it cannot be stronger

869
00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:27,039
than the faith that inspired the writers

870
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:29,600
of the bible a faith rooted in daily

871
00:33:34,310 --> 00:33:32,880
experiences with angelic visitation

872
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:34,320
unquote

873
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:36,320
now as we come to a close of this week's

874
00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:38,799
podcast i'd just like to point out that

875
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:40,880
this book this excellent book this

876
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:43,360
groundbreaking book by jacques vallee

877
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:46,000
passport to magonia takes us in a new

878
00:33:51,909 --> 00:33:48,720
direction considering this phenomena

879
00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:51,919
beyond the confines of space aliens and

880
00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:54,000
sophisticated technology

881
00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:55,840
now this is an aspect of the ufo

882
00:34:00,310 --> 00:33:57,760
phenomenon data that i want to pursue

883
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:00,320
more and it's related to discussions

884
00:34:05,350 --> 00:34:02,640
i've had recently on twitter dropping

885
00:34:07,029 --> 00:34:05,360
breadcrumbs if you will hinting at some

886
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:07,039
greater understanding that is slowly

887
00:34:12,069 --> 00:34:09,280
emerging at least in regards to some

888
00:34:13,750 --> 00:34:12,079
elements of the ufo phenomenon data

889
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:13,760
we'll continue to pursue that over the

890
00:34:18,869 --> 00:34:16,000
next few weeks so i hope you'll tune in

891
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:18,879
next time as we continue this new aspect

892
00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:20,560
of the discussion

893
00:34:24,629 --> 00:34:22,240
before we sign off i'd also like to

894
00:34:26,869 --> 00:34:24,639
point out that come monday there will be

895
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:26,879
a new edition of liminal frames the

896
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:29,679
second episode recorded by myself and

897
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:32,480
nathan also known as a wave soul on

898
00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:33,440
twitter

899
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:36,000
so i hope you'll also tune in for that

900
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:37,679
again for those of you interested if

901
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:39,440
you're listening on youtube to this

902
00:34:42,790 --> 00:34:41,359
podcast you'll be able to access it

903
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:42,800
right there it'll be published to my

904
00:34:46,869 --> 00:34:45,280
youtube channel exo academia

905
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:46,879
and if you're listening on a podcast

906
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:48,800
platform then you'll want to subscribe

907
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:50,639
to liminal frames which is its own

908
00:34:56,230 --> 00:34:53,760
dedicated podcast liminal frames frames

909
00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:56,240
spelt with a ph

910
00:35:00,470 --> 00:34:58,560
and on that note we've come to the close

911
00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:00,480
of another edition of the point of

912
00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:02,640
convergence podcast if you'd like to

913
00:35:07,430 --> 00:35:04,800
support this podcast you can do so by

914
00:35:09,430 --> 00:35:07,440
going to patreon.com

915
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:09,440
exo academia

916
00:35:13,349 --> 00:35:11,520
but until next time friends from deep

917
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:13,359
within the blue ridge mountains of north